Discuss And Debate

scenario....within a group of riders you ( 1st rider) stop at a junction and are about to pull out and turn right, when out of the corner of your eye you catch something moving to your left, it turns out to be a member of your group (2nd rider) undertaking you and continuing out across the junction , obviously your first sight of the undertaking rider in your periferal vision causes you to re stop and re assess your exit from the junction because A/ youve now taken your eye off the ball and B/ theres a chance you may T-bone him.
The rider ( 3rd rider) behind has begun his assessment of his exit from the junction and having seen the rider ( 2nd rider) pass and continue out of the junction assumes the stopped rider (1st rider) has also gone but ends up riding ( at slow speed) into the rear of the 1st rider because his attention has been waivered by what some may deem as an.
we all know that if we hit something from behind we are ultimately to blame...no question. However questions remain.
should rider 1 have gone with the undertaking rider 2 and claim that the slot was his for the taking?
is the undertaking rider at fault for such a manouvre creating an unorthodox unexpected distraction
does the blame rest squarley on the shoulders of rider 3.
In my mind its six of one and half a dozen of the other but feel it would be good to know how others felt.

Disclaimer. This is not intended for anyone to point fingers following recent events please treat it as if it were a basic question out of the blue.

 

3rd rider at fault, should not assume anything.

 

Agree with you rob only 1 person riding your bike. I will say the 2nd bike was a factor but not the person at fault. And 2nd bike was 3rd bike and 3rd bike was 2nd so its the fault of 1st bike for not using he's mirrors lol

 

Just to add a little colour to the debate, this was part of a group ride with quite an established set of riders with a certain element of trust and anticipation involved.

Rather than queue from a minor to a major fast moving road one at a time, rider 2 slipped slightly up to 3 quarters of rider 1 so as not to obscure his view and as soon as rider 1 looked as though he had decided to go, rider 2 then made a decision to take a wide line to join the flow of traffic. Rider 2 obviously didn't mean to “put off” rider 1 and was surprised he stopped. However, Rider 3 is blind as a bat and too old to be riding motorcycles without stabilisers…

How is the silencer Pete?

 

As for
"should rider 1 have gone with the undertaking rider 2 and claim that the slot was his for the taking?"

Rider 2 was surprised that rider 1 didn't pull out but every man rides his own ride so the only person who can make a call as to whether Rider 1 should or shouldn't have gone is Rider 1 himself....

 

Hey I'm cool with putting hands up where needed.....

I'm just pleased it was such a good ride and that everyone got back safe and sound...

Bottom line is that people who don't ride miss out!

 

Lesson learned i think
1 look where your bloody going
2 napa

 

I for one am very often a "2nd rider" at both right and left turns unless it is very narrow. It certainly speeds up the group exit from a joining road. I will always pull out slower than "1st rider" to allow them priority and not compromise their exit. I would never do it with a rider who doesn't know me.

The group in question all know each other well, but, as in life in general, we all make calls that sometimes turn out to be wrong in some way and, as in life in general, it's always a combination of things that produce the end result. From the view in my mirrors I wouldn't apportion blame to any individual, but an insurance company would, and we all know who it would be.

Of course, the leader of a run is always in a privileged position as everyone has to wait and see where the f*ck he's going!
So in future I think Paul should lead all ride outs he's a member of.

 

Sounds good i lead out you find us a way home

 

I don't think Neil was attempting to pass Pete, just go out at the same time.
Pete wasn't expecting it and, quite rightly, was cautious and stopped.

 

Very civilised, gents! Well done.

It shows it's possible to air events and explore to see if there's anything to be learned without WW III breaking out.

 

I've just read this again and realised it's me you're talking about!
Right, that's it, I'm not leading anymore ride outs .
(except my Thursday ride out this week, and my night run, and any others I might post up)

 

what a great discussion ...and...its sort of the 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other i was talking of ....given the same scenario id certainly take the same course of action as Jimbo said ( airing the side of caution) and being unsure of who it was, i couldnt have known it was Napa until he'd passed me, as he states he hung back for a sec. had we both been awaiting at a stand still i doubt there would have been a problem with us pulling out together as had happened a few times on the ride ( just that split second to be able to glance over and identify the body, as it was) we were kinda at a rolling stop or go situation ...and for the record im still extremely happy to ride in front of or behind either rider again with full trust in their abilities ive known Napa for some time and had the privilege of riding with him several times and at some very spirited paces too and ive known Lost even longer and ridden many rides with him also at warp factors. both very accomplished riders. but as Black hornet pointed out and as i stated in my original post although it was something that occurred it got me thinking so i put it forward purely hypothetically and the guys involved in the actual event have been very gentlemanly about it.
regarding the can Neil ....all sorted ...as with all deformed metal its never going to be perfect but im happy with it, no big dent anymore and any that remained is hidden so no real harm done.